We are very pleased and fortunate to have had a chance to speak about the Lincoln v. Douglas debates with Harold Holzer.  Harold Holzer is the author and editor of 25 books, a frequent television guest, lecturer, and is co-chairman of the United States Lincoln Bicentennial Commission.  He won the Lincoln Prize for his book on Lincoln at Cooper Union.  His website is www.haroldholzer.com.  Please visit his site to learn more about his work.  Here is his book for school aged kids, The President is Shot! Also, visit the U.S. Lincoln Bicentennial Commission website.

What role did the Declaration of Independence play in the Lincoln - Douglas debates?
All through the debates, Lincoln reminded Senator Douglas-and his audience-that the Declaration guaranteed that “all men are created equal.” This included African Americans.  Lincoln never let Douglas forget that slavery violated the promise of the Declaration.  It was mentioned in every debate.  Lincoln believed the Declaration was the holiest document in American history.

In your opinion, what would have happened to the United States had Lincoln been elected over Douglas?
This is a question I’ve never thought of before.  But i don’t think history would have changed much.  I expect Lincoln would still have run for President, still have won the nomination and the election.  In fact, if he had been a Senator he might have had an even easier time getting the Republicans to back him.

What role did the Dred Scott decision play in the debates?
In its Dred Scott decision, the U. S. Supreme Court declared the black people could never be citizens of the United States.  Lincoln was horrified at this ruling.  He insisted that the decision should be overturned.  He charged it was part of a conspiracy among all 3 branches of government-executive, legislative, and judicial-to make slavery permanent in every part of the country.  Douglas tried to play down the decision, but Lincoln brought it up every time he could.

Can you describe the events that brought Lincoln back into politics and to the place where he was chosen to run against Douglas?
Lincoln had been out of politics ever since serving a single term in Congress.  He was practicing law and, for once, earning good money.  Then Senator Douglas authored a new law in Congress.  It repealed the old Missouri Compromise which forbade slavery in the North.  And it created a new “doctrine” called “Popular Sovereignty.” Under this new idea, the settlers in new territories would be allowed to vote for themselves on whether or not to allow slavery into their areas.  Douglas thought this was a perfect example of democracy: majority rule. But Lincoln was furious-he asked how it could possibly be democratic for people to vote to make other people slaves?  As he put it, this new law “aroused” him back into politics.  In June 1858, Republicans meeting at the State Capitol in Springfield nominated Lincoln to run for the Senate against Douglas.  This was most unusual at the time-because in Lincoln’s time, Senators were elected by state legislatures, not a direct vote of the people, and candidates were never nominated.  Lincoln gave one of his greatest speeches when he accepted the nomination.  “A House Divided,” he said, “cannot stand.”


Can you explain Slave Power and why the Republicans thought it was such a threat?
First and foremost, Republicans opposed slavery on moral grounds.  Lincoln repeated throughout the debates that slavery was a “wrong” and that it some day had to end.  Slavery was also an economic threat.  Slave labor was cheaper than free white labor.  Lincoln wanted to be sure that working people could earn a decent salary.  Finally, slavery was also a political threat to Republicans-and all Northerners.  Under Senator Douglas’s “Popular Sovereignty” plan, each time a new territory voted to welcome slavery, it would become a new slave-holding state-with two new Democratic, pro-slavery Senators.  This meant that slavery would never be voted down in Congress-because the Slave power would control slavery forever.

Who were Lincoln’s role models in both politics and rhetoric?
Lincoln always said that Senator Henry Clay was his “ideal” as both a leader and a speaker.  He liked his logical way of speaking, his willingness to compromise, and his coolness under pressure.  We should remember that Clay also popularized the idea of sending black people back to Africa-and Lincoln supported this idea for many years.  Lincoln may have liked Clay principally because he was from Kentucky, like Lincoln himself.  But when it came time to support Clay for President in 1848, Lincoln endorsed Zachary Taylor instead.  And once he was elected president himself, Lincoln absolutely refused to compromise any further on slavery.  He insisted it could not spread into the new territories, period.  So in the end, Lincoln went much further than his role model.  He also admired Thomas Jefferson, and especially George Washington.  He read a book about Washington as a child and never forgot it.  But when Lincoln left Illinois to become President, he told people he had a task before him “greater than that which faced Washington.” That was quite a daring thing for him to say.

How did the Senate contest in Illinois come to national attention?
Though Lincoln and Douglas spoke off the cuff, not from prepared speeches, their debates were the first ever to be taken down in shorthand.  Newspapers from around the country then printed every one of the seven three-hour-long debates-every word of them-and added comments and opinions.  Soon, the whole country was talking about the debates.  Later, Lincoln had them published in a book, and it became a best-seller.  Douglas was already famous.  But these debates made Lincoln famous, too. Douglas was known as “The Little Giant.” Now Lincoln became, to many Republicans, the “Giant Killer.”

Can you describe the atmosphere of the debates: crowds, fanfare, publicity, etc.?
The debates took place over several months, and in very different parts of Illinois.  So crowds were sometimes as large as 20,000, or as small as 3,000.  Sometimes the weather was hot, sometimes freezing.  But each debate was a huge event.  Crowds came from all over, on horseback, in wagons, in boats, by railroad, or on foot. Many debates started with a parade.  People carried signs, ate and drank all day, listened to marching bands, bought pictures of the speakers, and shouted their opinions as the debaters spoke. It was like the Super Bowl and the Academy Awards rolled into one big event. The enthusiasm was enormous.  Of course, no one knows how many people actually heard the speakers.  The debates took place in the days before microphones-so Lincoln and Douglas had to shout to make sure people could hear them.

In what ways was Douglas a vulnerable candidate and how did Lincoln attack his vulnerabilities?
Douglas was in fact a very strong candidate.  Illinois was still a very racist state in 1858.  By saying that he favored democracy but opposed equal rights for blacks, he fit in nicely with current opinion of the day.  Lincoln tried to remind voters that Douglas was a big drinker, that he favored Southern interests, and that he was part of the plot to make slavery national.  We tend to think of Douglas today as evil: a short, angry, loud man.  But in the 1850s, politicians were supposed to act this way.  It was Lincoln who was different!

Do you believe that certain presidents, like Lincoln, have historical “greatness” because their core values and beliefs are tailor made for the specific time in which they were president?
No, I think men like Lincoln are great-and remain great-because their values and beliefs work as well today as they did 150 years ago.  Lincoln believed in equality.  He believed in opportunity.  He hated slavery. A poor boy who rose from a log cabin to the White House, he showed by his own success that every American could go as far as his talent could take him.  Lincoln believed in the power of words and ideas.  He believed in open government, and communicating with the people.  Many people of his own day thought he was too liberal.  Others thought him too conservative.  His success shows that he was a political genius as well as a man of core values.

Is there any truth to the rumor that Lincoln wore a stovepipe hat to give pigeons a place to sit?
This is a good story, but I’m afraid it is for the birds.  I happen to think Lincoln wore a stovepipe hat because he wanted to appear even taller than he was.  At 6’4”, he was a giant in his day-like today’s basketball players!  But the top hat made him look even bigger.  Every politician likes to stand out in a crowd, and his hat made Lincoln visible in even the biggest of those crowds.  Besides, Lincoln needed a big hat for all his paperwork.  He used his hat as his “office,” filling it with scraps of paper.  He couldn’t very well have done that with a cap!